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The battle begins

by ranfuchs @ 2008-01-22 - 10:47:50

spanish_inquisition_small

How did the rivalry between the Church and science begin?

It started when the persecuted Christian minority had gained enough power to persecute others.

Priscillian, a Christian theologist, won his place in history for being the first Christian executed by the Christian authorities. In the year 385, shortly after Constantine had changed Rome’s religion to Christianity, Priscillian, with six of his companions, was sentenced to death for heresy: that is, not following the official line of the Church. For centuries to come, his execution set the stage for how the Church would deal with any of those subjects who questioned its teachings.

By the early Middle Ages, the Church, which had continued to consolidate its power, had established itself as the spiritual leader of the “civilized world”, and often as the political and economical superpower, successfully challenging rulers and states.

To strengthen its authority further, the Church positioned itself as the custodian of all truth, which it alone was authorized to expound under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. It eliminated any challenge to its teachings by giving explicit sanction to officially correct views of nature and scripture; and in 1231 it established the Inquisition to maintain and defend the integrity of the faith, and to examine and proscribe errors and false doctrines. Heretics became the enemy of society.

In the beginning, interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures formed the foundation for the science of the Church. However, whenever a new philosophy was adopted, it became an inseparable part of the Holy Teachings, impossible to question or challenge.

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The advanced made by Pope John 23rd are now being systematically undone and the Church is returning to its previous 'we are the only authority on God and the World'. It was refreshing to see that there were sufficient numbers of students in Italy who objected to the papal visit to their University on the grounds of his being anti-science and Italy was a secular state and did not want the Pope to start pontificating in a secular university...they would have probably all come before the Inquisition once for torture and execution unless they retracted their opposition :) Be careful, there are many Opus Dei members now in the hierarchy of the Church who would bring it back tomorrow...big hugs...

I meant 'advances' not 'advanced' - damned typos! :)

ranfuchsranfuchs pro
2008-01-22 @ 20:20

You give me money, you find holiness in your poverty. I love it

Lost me there, Ranfuchs...LOL...what this got to do with my comment?

ranfuchsranfuchs pro
2008-01-22 @ 23:17

Opus Dei

Ah, bit obscure but got it now :))

tsunamicharlietsunamicharlie [Member]
2008-06-07 @ 22:27

Did you mean that Italy is finally throwing off the church?

ranfuchsranfuchs pro
2008-06-07 @ 22:29

doesn't seem so. Not in the near future

tsunamicharlietsunamicharlie [Member]
2008-01-22 @ 11:24

They don't let females be members of Opus Dei but a member of the British Cabinet, Ruth Kelly, is allowed in as an associate. But I have just realised, she is a man. I am a socialist but I am very opposed to their support for faith schools. I think Brown is making a start by suggesting that the blasphemy laws should be repealed instead of expanded to include all faiths and not just the C of E. I think that with education, education, education, religion will just wither away. It will get individual boosts with influxes of muslims and polish plumbers but as soon as their children get educated then the decline will continue, thank God(?)

ranfuchsranfuchs pro
2008-01-22 @ 20:35

I think that this might be a wishful thinking more than reality. Education by itself does not wither away anything. It's a very specific type of education that will. Although the power of the Church and religion has decreased for quite some time, since the emancipation period until around the 80’s, I'm not familiar with any studies that show that this trend continues. In many areas, it has actually reversed.

tsunamicharlietsunamicharlie [Member]
2008-01-22 @ 20:56

Firstly I am an optimist and if education tends to make you rational and rely on reason for your thoughts then it becomes more and more difficult to consider reasonable anything for which there is no evidence. I don't know how the throwing off of the yoke of religion started in England but it is now happening in Ireland where church attendance is dropping like a stone. In the UK church attendance is now about 4%

It has been suggested that the word atheist be dropped and replaced with naturalist - the opposite of supernaturalist. I am going to start using it.

ranfuchsranfuchs pro
2008-01-22 @ 21:06

Like it. I will start using it myself :)

nultygoestoparticknultygoestopartick [Member]
2008-01-22 @ 13:48

Nice post.

ranfuchsranfuchs pro
2008-01-22 @ 20:41

thanks, glad you liked it. I find the subject fascinating

sallyontoursallyontour pro
2008-01-22 @ 14:57

Very interesting, although sadly not surprising.

ranfuchsranfuchs pro
2008-01-22 @ 20:48

It's not surprising to us because by now this our history. But just think about the devotees that used to be persecuted, for believing in turning the other cheek and the goodness of human heart. All of a sudden they discover that their own church, the very church they had believed would lead them to a better world, becomes savage, and just as atrocious as the barbarism it replaced.

10loves1010loves10 [Member]
2008-01-22 @ 21:56

‘The historical constitution of Christianity makes the Chinese laugh at missionaries as story-tellers.’
Arthur Schopenhauer – The Christian System

It has me in stitches also and I’m not even Chinese...seriously though you might find the above mentioned text quite interesting.

ranfuchsranfuchs pro
2008-01-22 @ 23:18

I thought that Chinese loved story tellers. Why the laugh then?

Interesting post, RF!

I was born a Christian myself (Roman Catholic) but disassociated from that belief ca. 20 years ago. One of my many reasons was that the Church indeed seemed to prefer to keep their believers in the dark about scientific facts.

But (there has to be a but, you know ;) ): this is not only a problem of Christianity. I don't know all religions on this planet, but just look at the most popular religions and you will find that those who are in power prefer to do like the Catholic church, and instill more or less fanatic ideas instead of knowledge in the brains of their followers.

Oh, and before I'm misunderstood: I am not only talking about Islam. You find this with Hindus, Jews, Sikhs, various sects (especially in the U.S.), and so forth.

Is that due to a lust for power by some? And a need for a leader by the rest of us? I've often wondered. It would also explain other fanatism - Hitler for example, but again he's not the only one.

ranfuchsranfuchs pro
2008-01-23 @ 22:51

I absolutely agree that all totalitarians in power (church or otherwise) prefer ignorance. Church was merely another political organisation that manipulated faith to gain its own political and financial objectives

Here I am merely describing historical events, not really expressing any opinion. But as the first friction between science and religion was with the Catholic church, and as the catholic church was the most prominent power behind the suppression of science, I thought that it would be a natural starting position.

MistakenIdentityMistakenIdentity [Member]
2008-01-23 @ 13:55

Very interesting. There's a million strings to this bow - all worth exploring.

ranfuchsranfuchs pro
2008-01-23 @ 23:00

any suggestions?

tsunamicharlietsunamicharlie [Member]
2008-06-07 @ 22:34

All brainwashing is wrong. Surely civilized governments should not support faith schools.

ranfuchsranfuchs pro
2008-06-07 @ 22:36

True, but I am not familiar with many civilized governments. Are you?

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